I agree with you, at least partially, people are supposed to freely express their opinion, and as others have the right to call these opinions racist, they also have the right to defend their own ideas.

as for ”regulating discussions” which I think you’re referring to me. First, if I was correct previously, I wished that you would have mentioned me by the name, I wont be offended, after all we’re friends, I’m tracking your articles and you’re tracking mine, so believe me it wont bother me. second, yes I think there should be some ”oral law” that initially controls how people comment; in a way that may stop the anarchy you’ve talked about in this post.

follow the cause. the cause for writing articles is to share your opinion with others and listen to theirs, its not about calling eachothers racist, Nazis, ethnic-cleaners, and so on. at least that was the law why I ”wished” the commentators to follow. There was some ”casualties” as many people saw (talking in the language of war now lol) I tried to avoid it anyway.

Thank you for that Aioub, but unfortunately, I wasn’t referring to you alone, I was referring to several incidents when regulation was attempted and I just don’t agree with it that’s all, but we are friends as you said and I respect you and I would refer to you by name if I felt that it was just you posing such a problem, but again, finger pointing and name references are pointless.

You’re right about the war lingo, it’s almost funny, but mostly sad...

”Thank you for that Aioub, but unfortunately,I wasn’t referring to you alone.”

but you were referring to me anyway.

I didn’t say that what happened there is funny, the ”lol” was to reduce the seriousness of my language, as people seemed to be offended by it. It is sad however, I agree.

So what if i was referring to you anyway?
Am I required to identify every person I make slight references to?
Besides, I didn’t deny referring to you at all, I was just saying it wasn’t you alone so there was no reason for me to address you!

I didn’t say that shouldn’t refer to me in the first place, and I didn’t say that you’re required to do anything else you don’t want to do.

I was saying that you were refering to me amongst other authors, and I had to explain why I chose to do that by commenting on this post.

Excuse me, but am I exaggerating if I said that I felt a bit of ”aggression” in your words? if yes, then I wish to know why, if no then I apologize.

No Agression Aioub but I just didn’t understand your point, specifically in lights of the topic of this post..

”but I just didn’t understand your point, specifically in lights of the topic of this post.. ”

BLAM!!

Another subtly ironic and deadly bazooka from Sarah!

Gotta hand it to you...

LOL!

What the hell is going on here?

That’s it...

HELL IS going on here!

bid adieu, to rational, peaceful, arguments and counter refutations...

and what can be more horrific, than being labeled by opinions...TAGGING literally...very unfortunate!

a well sorted out post!

It can’t be allowed.
Thank you Shahwar, Ibloggers like you can give heavier weigh to ”rational, peaceful, arguments and counter refutations...”

That should be everyone’s intellectual duty here...

...one can’t be PREJUDICED while voicing any opinion, any view point...

one doesn’t need a college student to tell this to the world... lol

...this is the process of dialectics...

points and counter points,

a counter point or refutation is not dangerous,

but the blindness to stick by an opinion, without any room for informed accomodation...IS...

lethal...as lethal as ignorance!

NO ONE IS AS CEREBRAL AS TO HAVE A CONCRETE VIEW POINT...

AND AGAIN NO ONE IS AS IGNORANT AS ”NOT” TO HAVE ONE!

but again, every ”viewpoint” should again be scaffolded by an alert rationale, after inspecting all sides of the story...

this was kind of long...but had to say all that!

what is happening today in the world, is most unfortunately ”HAPPENING”,

and the last thing we want here is labeling opinions...

in the process...scaring decent opinions away...from the fear of being labelled...

...”””VIRTUAL TERRORISM!!!”””

there has sadly enough, been extremist and hateful views here...for quite some time now...

but there had also been PEOPLED opinion to counter it...

and that SHOULD BE the process now also...AND RUNNING!

we should just keep our eyes, ears...and hearts open...

because after all we are merely debating...and some merely blabbering here...

while hundreds of people are actually countering it with their lives out there, everywhere...

So on this platform at least...for the lives lost...

LET THERE BE LIGHT AND LET THERE BE SANITY!

THANK YOU!

What the hell is going on here?

That’s it...

HELL IS going on here!

bid adieu, to rational, peaceful, arguments and counter refutations...

and what can be more horrific, than being labeled by opinions...TAGGING literally...very unfortunate!

a well sorted out post!

Well written, truly ,as a part of IB community we should use this platform and our word power to the benefit of the readers rather than ending up with trivial arguements.

This is going to do nothing but make people loose the respect they’ve earned as good writers.

”rather than ending up with trivial arguements.”

and funny enough, not many seem to be getting that!

@Sarah

Presenting excerpts from some recent conversation what’s happening on IB.

*************************************
Almaha:

RobbieNZ
How old are you?

Hassan:

He obviously a teenager

*************************************

”And to be honest the sixth graders I teach speak better than you, and that’s why I asked how old you were :p so I won’t waste my time arguing with kids or even those whose minds are controlled by their biased media.”


*********************************

@Sarah

Presenting excerpts from some recent conversation what’s happening on IB.

*************************************
Almaha:

RobbieNZ
How old are you?

Hassan:

He obviously a teenager

*************************************
Almaha:

”And to be honest the sixth graders I teach speak better than you, and that’s why I asked how old you were :p so I won’t waste my time arguing with kids or even those whose minds are controlled by their biased media.”


*********************************
RobbieNZ

”go cook your husbands some eggs before your community stone you to death...”


All this comments are available on:http://marcovilla.instablogs.com/entry/the-world-stands-with-gaza/#comment-561682

***********************************

Well, at present, I will like to say the same thing which I said there on the post mentioned above:

I am really sad that some commentators can stoop down to any level to gain an upper hand.Even send private abusive mails.Is that’s the way to participate in a serious issue like this ?

Surprisingly,this has become a trend pattern on IB.In fact, all the serious debates have become a medium to manifest ”king-size” egos. We make a good beginning but ultimately the whole debate gets reduced to such stupid level.What’s the point in trashing one’s persona? I just want to know that is INSTABLOGS reserved for all-perfect souls ?How many of us really are incarnations of perfectness ?

I mean who has given them the license to shut other person’s mouth on flimsy grounds ?If anyone is young or ,for that matter, does not have a proper command over language loses the right to say anything on IB or anywhere? Why are we all the time ridiculing one’s background ?

SHOCKING.HEIGHT OF ABSURDITY.

Please learn to argue with facts,with a right mindset and ,of course, remain in league with issue at hand !!!

**************************************

unfortunately its happening. I’ve ventured to ”bestow” a rule on comments, but it didn’t end that well also.

Perhaps its the administrators responsibility to ”forbid” some certain malpractices. I don’t want to preach anyone, but a freedom that is not limited by law (that is the freedom of others) is actually an anarchy–If I be not urging too lofty a claim.

Well then Arvind, no point point in quoting the absurdity...it only helps to heighten the absurdity doesn’t it?

Nothing should be forbidden!!!!!!
this is a virtual community people, this is the only place we have a voice, let us say what we want, and if you don’t like it, either debate me on it, try to change my mind if you think i’m so utterly wrong, and if you can’t, agree to disagree and walk away, if you don’t respect me or my opinions or my thoughts or words, just don’t read me and trash my posts! really not so difficult!

”Well then Arvind, no point point in quoting the absurdity...it only helps to heighten the absurdity doesn’t it?”

—Quite true!! Anyway, this virtual war in the virtual domain needs to be prevented.Because it’s quite possible that sooner or later we might too be labelled as this or that...ha..ha

Well racism cannot be accepted anywhere and in any form.Be it any person from any country,they should not be called by names that would offend them in any way.At the end of the day we all are human beings,who deserve to live a respectful and equality filled life....

Thanks Sarah.

I have found on IB how truly ignorant I am about the world, that is why I like it. I want to learn, search for my ”truths” and I NEED opinions to do so: the good and the bad. They will help me see from all angles.

Maybe it is unfair of me to ask for what I’m asking..I know people are very passionate about their views, feelings, and opinions, I don’t want them censored, quite the contrary. I WANT TO KNOW. I WANT to know WHY and HOW, I just don’t want all the racist name calling and wishes of death from one person to the other.

IB is becoming some type of ”hostile” territory where one is not free to speak or hear for fear of being branded.

it’s gone too far.

Thanks Sarah.

No Oscar it isn’t unfair, and you’re sooooo right!! This is what I’m trying to say, at least it’s truth, at least there’s no use here to lie to one another because there are no benefits and no alternative agendas or motives, at least we get to see it first hand, and think about it, and respect it, and know it exists!

Fine, if they wanna make it hostile, they can, I mean that is the truth of the current situation too, I’d rather it be hostile than fake and moderated and regulated like the rest of the bullshit fed to us everyday n night!!!

It has gone too far. I agree Oscar.

I have been a participant in all this, as have several of those present on this post, and it has been ugly at times.

On the other hand, I think the positive side of all this is that certain issues have been brought up, as you know personally, (Sarah too), and I am convinced that the result is that things will improve here.

And if, as is becoming clear, we need to kick it around so that people start realising things, then I’m happy about it..

Right. Back to posting.

Yo!

SHAHWAR said ”LET THERE BE LIGHT ..”

That’s what the world needs. Light and englightenment, because without it we remain in the dark.

Sarah...In all seriousness I couldn’t agree more. I think some people vent and express their general ”anti” views here on IB because they don’t have the courage to do it in real life as it shows how hateful they actually can be.


Its really unacceptable when people use foul language when it’s clearly uncalled for in the discussion. Its high time Some people should know how to have healthy arguments on issues, without name-callings, rudeness, negative generalizations to a particular race, people or religion.

Arvind
Maybe you should have quoted these that were directed to me.
” I wonder why I can’t find a place on Earth where Muslims are living in peace right now.”
” Saudi Arabia is the major reason for this turmoil... I can’t wait until the oil finishes”

”Muslims can’t leave in peace anywhere
find me a Saudi who will talk of Humanity inside Mosques without have their tongues cut”

”Now, go bend to West”

”I find myself some time to reply to Bedouin with laptops”

”What you know of Justice, you blind cow!”

”Here, food for your brain... cow!
Please Almaha, don’t waste your time with me or others... in fact, go cook your husbands some eggs before your community stone you to death...”


And you found this funny Arvind:)
”go cook your husbands some eggs before your community stone you to death...”

Yes, this is a very funny statement. But I am seriously serious. That means women are capable of doing only household work and are not intellectually capable of presenting arguments in a serious debate. Never underestimate the ability of a woman in a woman-oriented age ..ha..ha

I did not name-call. I did not start it there. I was insulted and offended. And everything I said about my students speaking better than that memeber was a fact. Yes, my students never speak that way. You did not quote everything directed to me and also some other members.
Anyway, you’re right. We should avoid such arguments and try to focus on bringing facts to support whatever we believe better than offending to defend.
My apologies if I crossed the line there. And I will just ignore such people next time

@Almaha

I have already commented on this comment on the other post. Anyway,if I have not quoted all the above remarks that doesn’t mean I am not being fair with U.As stated earlier my sole purpose in avoiding the re-presentation of abusive remarks hurled at U was intended only at keeping the length of my comment short.

In fact,I am least interested in adding salt to your injuries. Probably, that’s why I have stated (on that particular post)that there should be no attempt to shut the mouth of women commentators by subjecting them to crass remarks aimed at derailing their abilities. You ignored the essence of my comment, which was aimed at creating better environment for women commentators on IB!!

Arvind, I’m very very offended by your last remark. I honestly do not know what’s going on with you and Almaha, and I have just previously stated that we should avoid petty arguments, but
there shouldn’t even be a consideration for the gender of IB bloggers!!
for all you know, i might be some 40 year old perverted psychotic male who likes to pass off as a 20something year old woman! and so can you! so please, do not think of it that way...

@Sarah

It’s unfortunate that you failed to intercept my comment in proper light.I have not made any regressive remark.I am just bothered about the way people have commented on IB and that includes abusive remarks hurled on women commentators.Well,one can only talk about rules meant to be applied in normal circumstances.I am dealing only with general code of conduct.

I am not stating extraordinary situations wherein one finds woman impersonating as man and vice- versa ..ha..ha.If that’s the case nobody can frame proper rules..ha..ha

Excellent post Sarah. I agree with every word.

As you know, I have been very active in this area lately and I am personally very happy with the results of it all.

People say Israel should never have existed or should be destroyed? Fine. People say that muslims are the scourge of the earth? Fine.

Here on this site, I will just be happy, and am, if those who prone violence know that their views do not represent everyone and are often of a racist nature.

To H.A. ”Oral law” on how to ”control how people comment”? I won’t comment on what that obviously implicates, but I WILL say that on the one occasion I had to try and comment according to it, you applied your law arbitrarily. Result? Comments on the post concerned stopped immediately.

@ Sarah, there is no need to be angry, I’ve never expressed that I don’t respect your opinions. If I don’t, I wouldn’t have commented on your post in the first place. I was suggesting a solution to this problem, and you clearly declared your refusal and I respect that as well. Ergo, I have never said that I want to change your mind or control what’s going on in the whole site, I have put my suggestion in the hands of the administrators without implying the inevitability of executing this suggestion.

@ Michael, I’m glad to see you again. I think I have recited my experience and clearly asserted that it has ended with a failure– with a little portion of intelligence one can easily deduct that I was narrating. as for the phrase on quotation, it was meant to implicate a softer meaning than that which you obviously understand. I have respected your reaction and tried to express my views on it, you didn’t do the same and I respect that also. As for the comments, I really don’t care whether people comment or not, after all it wasn’t my own writing. I am here to express my opinion, as simultaneously doing in many other sites. You and I clearly disagree on many aspects but our debates was always moderate, respectful, and sincere.

I just want to clear one thing so my fellow bloggers wont think of me as a tyrant: by controlling the nature of comments, I meant to apply a law on this process. every society, may it be virtual or real, needs a law and real law is not against freedom. Aristotle said : ”Law is order, and good law is good order.” this is what I meant by law.

Sarah, you are spot-on with your comment about being ”fed” what to read.

The corollory of that though, is responsible and non-inflammatory posts. This means responsible attitudes by contributors, because freedom of expression does not include shouting ”fire” in a crowded cinema.

The result of abuse is that the news outlet is then obliged to control content, or just become another rabble rousing rag.

Freedom comes with responsibility.

An example of that is ”Liberation”, a left-wing paper in France. It used to let everyone comment freely. Constant abuse led to comments having to be filtered, because things were getting out of hand. Then people had to sign up in order to comment. Censorship? No. They HAD to do something to stop the whole paper becoming a slanging-match...and to stop it losing readership and credibility, which is what was happening.....

A salutory lesson, I think....

The word is responsibility....

H.A.?

”our debates was always moderate, respectful, and sincere.”

And they shall be in the future...lol!

Concerning comments, I wasn’t implying that you care or not about receiving them, I just wanted to point out that maybe the guidelines killed comment off.

Yo!!

the story of ”Liberation” is somehow similar to this one. I have mentioned earlier in one of my comments that ”freedom that is not limited by law (that is the freedom of others) is actually an anarchy”. I believe this is responsibility you’ve cited that forbids a man from shouting ”fire” in a crowded cinema.

there is a problem in here and you’ve written two (or more I cant remember) articles about this issue, and now sarah does. From my point of view, there are many bloggers who fails to realize this ”responsibility”, I wish to know yours.

Previously mentioned, I admitted the failure of my ”guidelines”, but not on the scale of the number of comments, but on the scale of the experience. However, this, from my point of view as well, does not represent a total failure, one have to learn from one’s mistakes and try again, to reach a higher level of understanding inside the community.

Hi H.A.!

You wish to know how I define responsible writing?

Oh, I don’t really think that my opinion is important. My opinion is worth no more than anyone else’s.

I apply my standards to my work, and that’s it. Others do the same. So should you. If people need lessons on how to do it responsibly then either they pay me for professional advice LOL, which of course is out of the question, or they work it out by experience.

I’m not here to give lessons or enlighten people on how or what to write. I am here to write, and comdemn what I consider to be abuse when I see it.....

That’s it!

(Euhh, I suppose you could consider that what I just said is how I define it LOL)

Yo!!

actually, when comments regarding Bernie Madoff in papers etc. turned nasty and anti-semitic, those comments were removed from most online media oulets that allow commenting. �

I don’t often (if ever) post this type of comment.

I just wanted to say that although Sarah’s post was a good post, if you want to get to the bottom line of what she’s saying, read all of her comments.

They are even more incisive, and say even more about the issue, than the post itself.

Why?

Because she’s right, she’s honest, she’s consistent, she has convictions.

Excellent comments.

(Well, lol, makes a change from ”cool post”!)

Thank you for defining your opinion (lol), but this is not what I’ve meant. I just wanted know whether you think if there is a level of responsibility that may forbid this free man from ”firing in a crowded cinema.”

I was not trying to give people lessons on how to be responsible. I act with a sense of responsibility, one can learn from that. We all must be ready to learn anything at any given time, there is no arrogance in the first and no humiliation in the second. I see it at that, you can see it whatever you like, and if you felt that I was “preaching” or “giving lessons” then I’d like to declare that it was never in my intent to do so. If anyone still unconvinced that I’m not trying to teach them, then it’s their problem not mine.

I think (and thinking is not an arbitrary judgment so don’t dare to misuse my words, lol! ) that what is currently going on is the result of freedom with no responsibility. If one thinks that there must be freedom (I think so) and simultaneously believe that none has the right to speak about responsibility (I disagree with this) then we should refrain from any further bitching about the current situation.

Here I’d like to clarify that I am speaking generally, meaning that I am not degrading this post. This to avoid any possible misunderstanding.

”we should refrain from any further bitching about the current situation.”

Amen to that.......

@Incognito

Thanks Incognito for understanding that ”misinterpretation” is now the most occurring phenomenon on IB...ha..ha. It’s really frustrating that people are more interested in commenting without ever bothering to bring in application their minds.

Yes, I know very well that ”most of the women on this site can handle the abuse hurled at us”. Aren’t U one of them ?..ha..ha

@Incognito

Beware.I am also a ferocious fighter and generally made my opponents(referring only to those readers who behave more like opponents)bite the dust in most of the debates on IB and elsewhere.I hope there is no war of words between Incognito and Arvind.If that happens it could be the beginning of another world war of words..ha..ha

It’s so interesting how things can be misinterpreted when we come from different countries/cultures etc.� The written word is often challenging to interpret when you can’t see a person’s face or hear the tone in their voice..� I did not find Arvind’s comment offensive, I found it rather chivalrous, though i think most of the women on this site can handle the abuse hurled at us, and I have had my fair share. �

Arvind, yes indeed I am... :-)� I warn anyone trying to pick a fight with me.. I always win.. ;-)